Legislature(2003 - 2004)
02/05/2003 03:32 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 5, 2003
3:32 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Scott Ogan, Chair
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Vice Chair
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Ralph Seekins
Senator Ben Stevens
Senator Kim Elton
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearings:
Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation
- Ernesta Ballard
Board of Game - Pete Buist, Michael R. Fleagle, Cliff
Judkins, Sharon McLeod-Everette, Ron Somerville, Ted
Spraker
WITNESS REGISTER
Mr. Mike Fleagle
PO Box 33
McGrath, AK 99627
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions.
Mr. Ted Spraker
33350 Skyline Drive
Soldotna, AK 99669
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions.
Mr. Clifford P. Judkins
PO Box 874124
Wasilla, AK 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions.
Ms. Sharon McLeod-Everette
Box 81213
Fairbanks, AK 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions.
Mr. Pete Buist
PO Box 71561
Fairbanks, AK 99707
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions.
Mr. Ronald Somerville
4506 Robbie Road
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions.
Commissioner-designee Ernesta Ballard
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby
Juneau, AK 99801-1795
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions.
Mr. Paul Joslin
Alaska Wildlife Alliance
PO Box 202671
Anchorage, AK 99520
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concern that the nominees to the
Board of Game do not represent diverse viewpoints.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 03-2, SIDE A
CHAIR SCOTT OGAN called the Senate Resources Standing Committee
meeting to order at 3:32 p.m. Senators Wagoner, Stevens, Dyson,
Seekins, Elton and Chair Ogan were present. Senator Lincoln
arrived momentarily. Chair Ogan called a brief at-ease while
teleconference connections were made.
CHAIR OGAN asked Mr. Fleagle to testify and asked him why he
wants to serve on the Board of Game.
MR. MIKE FLEAGLE, Board of Game nominee, told members that he
has had a vested interest in wildlife resources most of his
life, being a rural resident and a user of wildlife resources.
He recently served two terms on the Board of Game. He was
appointed by former Governor Knowles and confirmed by the House
and Senate.
MR. FLEAGLE said he looks forward to being actively involved in
making wildlife policy in Alaska, particularly since the change
of administration might bring about some needed reforms in
wildlife management practices. He told members he believes the
board process is a good one. The board was making sound
decisions but those decisions were not being carried out. He
said it appears this time around the board will have a chance to
see the effect of its decisions on wildlife management.
CHAIR OGAN took questions.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she was surprised to see Mr. Fleagle accept
the board nomination at this time since he decided against
reappointment. She asked Mr. Fleagle to tell members whether his
frustration from his previous board experience went beyond the
predator control issue.
MR. FLEAGLE said he would like to clarify why he announced his
retirement and decided not to seek reappointment to the board
when he did. He said that former Governor Knowles was carrying
out an overhaul of the board. The board members who voted
against bird or wildlife watching programs, such as the Denali
buffer zone, were being replaced in a disrespectful manner in
his opinion. Those members lost their seats a few days prior to
a big meeting they had spent a lot of time preparing for. He
anticipated that he would not be selected for reappointment and
did not want to have to prepare for a meeting that he might not
attend. For that reason, he took the upper hand and announced
that he was retiring from the board.
MR. FLEAGLE said, regarding Senator Lincoln's question about
whether predator control was the only issue he was frustrated
about, a number of administrative things happened in the Alaska
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) that board members were
frustrated with. First and foremost was the lack of any predator
management; and second was too much deference given to the
animal rights and watchable wildlife communities. In addition,
department staff was required to withhold biological opinions on
issues that would have been beneficial to the public. They were
not allowed to participate in the public discussions even on
their own time. Often the positions on wildlife conservation
presented to the board were not from the Division of Wildlife
Conservation but were from the Office of the Commissioner. For
those reasons, he decided to retire.
CHAIR OGAN said he has heard anecdotal reports from around the
state that the moose and caribou populations are not doing well.
He said he quit hunting in Area 13 about 10 years ago because
there were so few bulls and lots of cows with no calves. The
calf survival rate was about zero. He said the reports he is
hearing are that hunters are coming out empty handed from areas
they have been hunting in for years. He asked if the board is
hearing the same reports.
MR. FLEAGLE said the board is hearing those reports too. He
noted that the caribou population has a boom and bust cycle from
overgrazing and predation, which is what is occurring in Unit 9.
The people in that area would still like to see predator control
so that humans can harvest the surviving caribou rather than
predators. Regarding the moose population, he said several units
have problems. He felt that pressure from the Fairbanks urban
area switched from Unit 25 down to Units 20, 21 and 24. He
doesn't believe that predation has been determined to be an
issue in Units 21 and 24 yet, but the local people seem to
believe there is an increased amount of predation.
MR. FLEAGLE said he agrees that predation management would be
beneficial in some areas but he is not sure how to get there. He
said a lot of the local people oppose a state run program. They
would prefer a program that puts local people into the fix and
makes certain [hunting] methods legal again.
CHAIR OGAN commented that he believes the state has lost a lot
of good biologists. He knows of one who retired because he was
sick of not being able to express his opinions on some of these
issues and had to walk a politically correct line. He said he
looks forward to getting Alaska's game populations back to the
constitutionally mandated sustained yield level. He thanked Mr.
Fleagle for his time.
CHAIR OGAN asked Mr. Buist to tell members why he wants to serve
on the Board of Game.
MR. PETE BUIST told members that he sees his appointment to the
Board of Game as an opportunity to get Alaska's wildlife policy
back on track. He sees a change in attitude on the part of the
Governor's Office, which will allow management based on science
rather than emotional issues. He said he respects and can
support non-consumptive uses of wildlife, which is how he uses
the resources 11 1/2 months out of the year. While he has no
problem managing wildlife for non-consumptive use, he believes
that putting wildlife on the table trumps non-consumptive use.
He is looking forward to the rejuvenation of an ADF&G where
biologists are able to give their professional opinions and not
just submit to political opinions.
3:52 p.m.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked Mr. Buist his opinion of a constitutional
amendment to bring the State of Alaska into compliance with
ANILCA. She then asked him, as a former guide board member, if
he has any other ideas about how to better regulate guides. She
also asked him to provide his views on hunting regulations along
new roads, since the Murkowski Administration is talking about
opening up new corridors.
MR. BUIST said he cannot support any of the proposed
constitutional amendments he has seen. He would rather see the
legal finagling worked out to determine what the bottom line is
before Alaska changes its Constitution to make Alaskans unequal.
Regarding ways to regulate guides, he said the Owischek decision
had a very detrimental effect on people in rural areas. State
land is now inundated with guides and, worse yet, the unguided
hunters are a worse problem. Guides are limited to three areas,
while the air taxi industry commonly puts hundreds of hunters
into areas where they compete with rural people. He said that
ties into Senator Lincoln's last question about hunting along
new transportation corridors. If the state gets back to managing
game for sustained yield, the state shouldn't have the same
allocation problem of feeding 80 percent of the game population
to wolves while the citizens fight over 2 or 3 percent of the
ungulates.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked if humans harvest about 7,000 moose on an
annual basis in Alaska.
MR. BUIST said that is a fair number.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked how many moose are harvested in Sweden on
an annual basis.
MR. BUIST said probably 20 to 30 times that number in a much
smaller area. He said one of the big differences, aside from
predator control, is that habitat manipulation favors the moose
population as well because Sweden practices active forestry over
much of that country.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked whether giving urban hunters a reasonable
chance to harvest close to home through active management would
relieve pressure on the rural areas.
MR. BUIST said he believes it would. People would not pay a lot
to travel long distances to hunt in a remote area if they have
reasonable hunting opportunities close to home. He said he hates
to make it sound that simple but it just might be.
SENATOR SEEKINS said he recently read an editorial in the Homer
newspaper that said only 15 percent of hunters are interested in
harvesting game for the purpose of putting food on the family
table. He asked Mr. Buist to comment on that statement.
MR. BUIST said he believes that is a misleading figure that has
been spun well by folks who want a different outcome. He said
the fact of the matter is that [one reason] for the lower
percentage is that, often, only one member of a family of six or
seven has a hunting license. If that scenario is projected
statewide, many people want moose meat on the table.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Buist if he could be characterized as
a person who is in favor of active management of wildlife for
the purpose of putting food on the table for Alaskan families
versus monitoring wildlife to keep track of the number of moose
killed by predators.
MR. BUIST said he thinks that is a fair characterization.
CHAIR OGAN asked Mr. Buist what his profession is.
MR. BUIST said he works for the Division of Forestry as a
certified forester.
CHAIR OGAN asked Mr. Buist if Sweden's active forestry
management practices create better habitat for moose by
providing more brush to feed on.
MR. BUIST said Sweden practices silviculture, which keeps more
acres in the early stages of succession. Those early stages
provide the type of vegetation that moose use for food.
CHAIR OGAN asked if cutting down trees lets more light onto the
forest floor and allows brush to grow, which provides better
moose habitat.
MR. BUIST replied that letting more sunlight reach the ground is
a time-honored way of creating more pounds of browse per acre.
CHAIR OGAN commented that the Habitat Division in the Alaska
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) denied a road-building
permit to a developer in the Matanuska-Susitna Valley because
the road would adversely affect the moose habitat. He thought
the reason for the denial was to stop road building rather than
protect moose.
MR. BUIST said he can see reasons to not have moose along the
roads. For example, willow sprouts along the roadways will lure
moose and vehicles could hit the moose.
CHAIR OGAN said this particular road would have been gated and
had limited access. He then said he would not belabor the point
and thanked Mr. Buist for his testimony. He called Sharon
McLeod-Everette to testify and asked her why she wants to
subject herself to a process in which she will be loved and
hated and possibly have to deal with death threats.
4:03 p.m.
MS. SHARON MCLEOD-EVERETTE said people have questioned her
sanity when she told them she wanted to serve on the board of
game so she finds Chair Ogan's question to be appropriate. She
said she sees her nomination as an honor. She is a long time
user of the resources and grew up hunting in Units 13A and B.
She is encouraged by the direction this Administration wants to
take - basing management decisions on science rather than
politics. She believes there may be an opportunity to
reinstitute some of the predator management controls that were
enforced in the past.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Ms. McLeod-Everette if she would classify
herself as an active or passive manager in terms of her overall
philosophy.
MS. MCLEOD-EVERETTE said she sees herself as more of an active
manager.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked her if she is committed to the
constitutional principle of maximum sustained yields for the
benefit of all Alaskans, including wildlife photographers. He
noted that most hunters are wildlife watchers, except for that
one moment when they need to provide food for the table.
MS. MCLEOD-EVERETTE said that is correct. She remarked that
hunters have the greatest opportunity to watch wildlife because
they are out in wildlife habitat more often. She hopes that good
management work based on a sustained yield principle will
increase the wildlife population.
SENATOR SEEKINS noted that Ms. McLeod-Everette has a long
history of interacting with active hunters. He asked her if she
considers hunters to be conservationists.
MS. MCLEOD-EVERETTE said she believes that all hunters, by
virtue of what they do, try to be conservationists. Some people
have given hunters a bad reputation by engaging in certain
activities but, in general, she believes hunters are good at
conserving. One reason she is interested in serving on the board
is to work on conservation of the prey population. She would
like to see the low moose populations in certain areas increase.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she is a subsistence hunter from Rampart
who sees hundreds and hundreds of boats traveling down the Yukon
River each year, knowing that the Rampart villagers will have a
difficult time competing with those people to kill a moose
within a set time. She asked Ms. McLeod-Everette how she would
work to address the concern of rural Alaskans about competing in
a small area in a short timeframe.
MS. MCLEOD-EVERETTE said Mr. Buist alluded to the fact that
getting back to managing for sustained yield, and creating more
opportunities for people to hunt closer to home, will alleviate
a lot of the pressure on rural communities during hunting
season.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she has seen a decrease over the years of
the number of "brown shirts" at the Yukon River bridge in the
Rampart area. At one time she counted 437 boat trailers parked
at the bridge with no brown shirt to be seen. She recalled
incidences in the past when Rampart residents had to tow boats
back upriver that had mechanical problems. The condition of the
meat on those boats was so poor that a brown shirt would never
have allowed wanton waste of the meat. She asked Ms. McLeod-
Everette what she would do to help enforcement efforts when the
Legislature is looking at further department budget cuts.
MS. MCLEOD-EVERETTE said she wonders if the Village Public
Safety Officers (VPSOs) could help with enforcement efforts.
She also suggested talking to legislators and the Governor about
the budget cuts. She said she knows the Governor is concerned
about wildlife management in general. She noted that part of
management is enforcement so that may provide an opportunity as
well.
CHAIR OGAN noted that he saw eyes roll in the audience when he
mentioned death threats, but the reality is every time the wolf
issue surfaces, death threats are made to the Governor and or
board members. He asked her if she has any anxiety about that
happening.
MS. MCLEOD-EVERETTE said she does not. She recounted that she
worked for the Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities (DOTPF) for 30 plus years and one of her first
professional jobs was to relocate people out of their homes.
CHAIR OGAN thanked Ms. McLeod-Everette and asked Mr. Ted Spraker
to testify.
4:14 p.m.
MR. TED SPRAKER told members he is interested in serving on the
board because he recently retired as a wildlife biologist from
ADF&G and watched this process for a long time. He has had good
luck with board issues but experienced a high level of
frustration with the lack of active management and particularly
with predator management. Mr. Spraker said he is currently
participating in the Central Kuskokwim moose management planning
efforts in Aniak. He has been getting firsthand information on
the problems in that area, including the influx of hunters and
transporters, and the increased number of local guides. The
local people feel their frustrations have fallen on deaf ears.
He said he is excited about the new administration and the
possibility of making some changes. He hopes that the efforts
toward predator management are directed toward the big picture,
not just wolves.
MR. SPRAKER said he has been a 30 year resident of Alaska and is
extremely excited to serve on the board.
SENATOR DYSON said he has heard a lot of concern expressed by
rural Alaskans about the messes left at remote areas by
irresponsible hunters. He asked Mr. Spraker if he has any
suggestions on how to curtail hunters from leaving waste in
those areas.
MR. SPRAKER said he does not. He noted he has been involved in
hunter education for children for the last 15 years and that
education stresses the need to leave camps clean. He suggested
providing more education on the need to do a better job and
present a better image.
SENATOR WAGONER thanked Mr. Spraker for offering to serve on the
board and asked him to comment on the amount of moose being
taken on the Kenai Peninsula by predators now as opposed to 15
years ago.
MR. SPRAKER said that area has a particular problem in that most
of the land on the Kenai Peninsula is federal. The board does
not have the opportunity to do extensive habitat management or
predator management. Hunters harvest more than 300 black bears
each year in that area. Studies have shown that black bears take
a high percentage of the moose calves each year and that the
Kenai Peninsula has a high number of brown bears and wolves. The
wolves are infested with an exotic louse, which discourages
trapping. When ranking those predators on the Kenai Peninsula,
the black bears take the highest number of calves but he
believes wolves have a higher impact because wolves take
anywhere from 600 to 800 adults. Comparatively, the hunters,
under selective harvest, take about 350 to 650 small and large
bulls and protect the middle-aged bulls. Road kills account for
as many as 356 moose. He said many issues on the Kenai Peninsula
need to be addressed. He believes the board can address them
without bias and try to rebuild the wildlife populations so that
they are available for all users.
SENATOR LINCOLN noted that Mr. Spraker has been involved with
local advisory committees and communities. She asked him to tell
the committee whether he would support co-management of game.
TAPE 03-2, SIDE B
MR. SPRAKER said he thinks co-management is something the state
will see in the future and that it has to work. However, he does
not believe co-management of the same areas for the same species
by the state and federal governments will work. He said he would
like to see state management returned in the worst way, but he
does not believe the Alaska Constitution should be changed to
give some Alaskans privileges. He said he agrees with Senator
Seekins that Alaska has a great opportunity to increase the
moose and caribou populations so that hunting does not need to
be restricted. He expressed concern about Senator Lincoln's
statement that she counted 437 boat trailers at the bridge. He
believes the board needs to take a close look at the number of
people that hunt in certain areas until populations are higher
and can meet demand.
Regarding co-management, MR. SPRAKER said that he is very
interested in what he is doing now, sitting in on meetings and
listening to advisory chairs from different villages. They have
heartfelt complaints and reasons why they need things done. He
said those meetings have been very meaningful to him and he is
glad to have heard villagers' concerns. He said he believes
more emphasis needs to be put on the local advisory committees
for management decisions.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Spraker if the local advisory system,
along with biological information from ADF&G, provides a good
overall base for what should happen in the various parts of the
state.
MR. SPRAKER said he thinks it provides the scientific
information and the local knowledge necessary to make a good
decision.
CHAIR OGAN thanked Mr. Spraker for his willingness to serve and
asked Mr. Judkins to testify.
MR. CLIFF JUDKINS reviewed his background on the Mat-Su Fish and
Game Advisory Committee and said he has been testifying before
the Board of Game for three years.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Judkins if he considers himself to be
an advocate of active or passive management.
MR. JUDKINS said he would classify himself as an active
management advocate.
CHAIR OGAN said he has always been confused by the objections to
certain appointments to the board based on the argument that the
board needs to represent diverse interests, watchable wildlife
being one of them. He said he believes that when managing
wildlife, the sustained yield principle would provide more
wildlife and more viewing opportunities. He asked Mr. Judkins to
comment.
MR. JUDKINS replied the key is managing for maximum abundance.
He said that he hunts for 20 days of the year and watches
wildlife the rest of the time.
CHAIR OGAN said he does not shoot every moose he sees and enjoys
wildlife watching himself. He repeated that he does not
understand the logic behind the philosophy that managing for
maximum sustained yield is detrimental to wildlife watching.
Chair Ogan thanked Mr. Judkins and asked Mr. Somerville to
testify.
4:32 p.m.
MR. RON SOMERVILLE told members he was raised in Craig in a
family of subsistence users. His 24 years as a fisheries
biologist with ADF&G has given him statewide experience. He
worked under the Hickel Administration, and as a legislative
consultant. He is an active member of the Territorial Sportsmen
in Juneau, the National Rifle Association and the Alaska Outdoor
Council. He has served on various committees since his
retirement and has worked on a wide variety of species. He said
he worked on the Murkowski transition team and made
recommendations to the Governor for the Boards of Game and Fish.
However, his name was not on the list of recommended nominees
and he did not actively pursue a seat on the board. Governor
Murkowski personally called him and asked him to submit his name
so he feels exceptionally honored.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Somerville how many people purchased a
moose tag on their hunting licenses last year.
MR. SOMERVILLE said he did not know.
SENATOR SEEKINS said he was curious because he was told that
about 75,000 moose harvest tickets were purchased, but the
actual harvest was 7,000 or less. Therefore, one out of every 10
people who wanted to harvest a moose was able to do so. He asked
if that is a good percentage.
MR. SOMERVILLE replied that a previous speaker pointed out that
the harvest in Alaska is proportionally very small compared to
other places. All of Alaska's wildlife species are subject to
cyclical conditions, exacerbated by predation in some cases. The
production per acre in Alaska does not compare to the lower
Canadian provinces or the Midwest. In addition, according to the
history of wildlife management in Alaska, the harvest is five
times lower than what it was.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked if that change can be attributed to the
loss in the reproductive base or in low survival rates in the
first fall season.
MR. SOMERVILLE said both, in most cases, but there is no simple
answer. He noted as a supervisor in the Nelchina area, he found
the problem was calf survival. The major predator was brown
bears. He said in some areas, the bull moose rate was so low
that the cows were going into a second estrus and breeding so
that calves were born in late June and went into the fall in a
weaker condition.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Somerville if he believes that using
proper scientific methods will enable the board to make policy
decisions that will increase the harvest possibilities for
humans.
MR. SOMERVILLE replied, "Absolutely. It's been proven. I don't
think that's really a contested matter. It's just the degree of
what pain we're willing to go through to get there."
SENATOR ELTON asked Mr. Somerville if he sees a role for the
Boards of Game or Fish in reorganization decisions, such as the
Governor's decision to transfer the habitat division.
MR. SOMERVILLE said the boards are free to make recommendations
but they do not set policy. The legislature sets policy. He does
not believe the board should step into that arena too
aggressively.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she knows Mr. Somerville's position on a
constitutional amendment so will not ask him about it. She noted
the board works with the advisory boards of game throughout
Alaska, which she finds to be very useful. However, Mr.
Somerville spoke about circumventing the will of the
legislature; she believes the board should not circumvent the
will of the people as well. She pointed out that Alaska Natives
in rural Alaska have long battled with Mr. Somerville about his
firm stand on subsistence. She said as a seated board member, he
will be representing all Alaskans. She asked how he proposes,
since his relationship with rural Alaska Natives has been so
tainted over time, to win back the confidence of those people so
that they believe he will listen to them.
MR. SOMERVILLE thanked Senator Lincoln for the question and said
he would like to sit down with her and talk because he does not
believe they are so far apart on the subsistence issue. Mr.
Somerville said he is not a racist and he has not lobbied
against Alaska Natives. He said one of the reasons he got into
trouble with part of the Native community is because he has been
a strong advocate for those Natives who would be disenfranchised
if the federal law in its present form were extended to state
law.
MR. SOMERVILLE asked to provide some background on his stance.
He volunteered for Governor Hammond on the D-2 task force in
1974. He and Don Harris traveled to the villages and talked to
the residents about subsistence, which resulted in S 7,
introduced by Senators Stevens, Gravel, and Congressman Young
and supported by Governor Hammond. Governor Hammond said his
main concern was that the state not lose any jurisdiction in the
process. He said in 1978, two years before ANILCA passed, the
Department of Law wrote a memo that said [he read]:
It is not difficult to envision a situation that the
Secretary, under Title VIII, might require the state
to adopt or change elements of the state's subsistence
management program which would be unconstitutional and
thus impossible to implement and enforce under state
law. The penalty would be involuntary removal of
management authority from the state or forced
amendment of Alaska's Constitution.
He said in 1978 the attorneys he talked to were convinced that
Title VIII, if passed, would result in violation of Alaska's
Constitution. That is where his problems with the Alaska
Federation of Natives (AFN) began. He took the position the
Governor told him to and became an advocate for that path. He
told the Boards of Fish and Game we were headed down that road
and the problems have just gotten worse. He said he is not
against subsistence. He has problems with the federal law in its
present form. He said regarding implementation, as a board
member he will implement whatever subsistence policy is adopted.
He does not believe it is appropriate for board members to voice
their political opinions. Their function is to implement the
law. He said he does not know of anyone on this board more
sympathetic to uses of fish and wildlife by people, particularly
rural Alaskans, than himself. He said he believes there is a
difference between his stand on the details of subsistence and
whether he can do his job as a board member. As a former
biologist in Alaska, he has lived in a lot of communities and
has worked from Ketchikan to Point Hope. He said he does not
want to be on the opposite side of the Native community and
would like to work with them. He pledged to try his best.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked Mr. Somerville if he would support co-
management of game between the local governments and the state.
MR. SOMERVILLE said it depends on how co-management is defined.
If it means the state entering into a co-management agreement
with a tribe, entering into a government-to-government
relationship will be problematic and may be unconstitutional.
The Legislature and the Governor will decide what the
relationship between the tribes and government should be.
Regarding his opinion of cooperative management with local
people, he believes in it wholeheartedly.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Somerville whether his personal views
on a relationship between the federal and state governments will
have any effect on how he might suggest the Board of Game manage
the resource - the methods and means for harvest.
MR. SOMERVILLE said he admits to being a strong advocate for
state's rights, but he is a realist and knows we will not get
rid of ANILCA in the near future. He would like to see the state
be more aggressive in dealing with its statutory and
constitutional responsibilities. That will require support from
the Governor and may require litigation. He believes the Board
of Game has rolled over and played dead when trying to resolve
conflicts.
There being no further questions, CHAIR OGAN thanked Mr.
Somerville and took public testimony.
MR. PAUL JOSLIN, a conservation biologist with the Alaska
Wildlife Alliance, asked all appointees their extent of
involvement with the Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), which
describes itself as one of the top lobbying organizations in the
state. He said the AOC is not a science based organization but a
political activist organization. The AOC is extremely anti-
predator and has a bias against giving consideration to the
wildlife viewing community even though wildlife viewing brings
in about $.5 million per year. The AOC is also against giving
any subsistence preferences on the basis of culture, ethnic
background or rural needs. They staunchly oppose the people's
right to allow [wildlife] initiatives and efforts to ban land
and shoot hunting of wolves, which passed overwhelmingly. The
AOC spends much of its efforts on selection of political
candidates for office and spends about $10,000 per year on
lobbying. This single interest group has taken over the Board of
Game. At least four of the new nominees belong to the AOC. Ron
Somerville is the founder of the AOC and is well known for his
anti-rural subsistence views. The former president of the AOC
has been appointed to the fisheries board, and the vice
president of the AOC, who is the head of its political action
committee, is being considered as the deputy commissioner of
ADF&G. For the first time in the history of the Board of Game,
not one member is from the Anchorage area even though half of
the people in the state live there.
MR. JOSLIN said that the Alaska Constitution states that
wildlife is intended for the common use. It does not say that it
belongs to a single, narrowly defined political activist
organization. His hope is that the Senate Resources Committee
will insist on a diverse membership on the Board of Game.
Without diversity, there cannot be a balanced decision-making
process.
CHAIR OGAN announced that with no further public testimony, he
would close the hearing on the confirmations to the Board of
Game.
SENATOR DYSON moved to report the names of the nominees to the
full body for a confirmation vote and to note that the committee
has found no reason to disqualify any of them.
CHAIR OGAN objected and asked that Senator Dyson make the motion
neutral regarding the disqualification provision.
SENATOR DYSON moved that the Senate Resources Committee move the
names of the nominees forward to a joint session for
consideration.
There being no objection, CHAIR OGAN announced the motion
carried. He then announced the committee would hear from
Commissioner-designee Ernesta Ballard.
4:55 p.m.
ERNESTA BALLARD, Commissioner-designee of the Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC), told members she has served in
many public capacities but has never had the honor of serving in
a governor's cabinet before. She worked for the federal
government as the Region X administrator of the Environmental
Protection Agency (EPA). She worked for local government at the
Municipality of Metropolitan Seattle, a federated wastewater
utility. She has served on the Board of Governors for the United
States Postal Service, which took her to Washington, D.C. on a
regular basis to represent the interests of rural America. She
has worked for the private sector in banking and as the CEO of
the Cape Fox Corporation. Finally, she has been the proprietor
of a small business. She said she brings to DEC a broad wealth
of experience and she hopes her appointment is considered
favorably.
SENATOR ELTON thanked Commissioner-designee Ballard for
attending and said he had several questions. The first involves
challenges to the seafood industry - the marketing challenge and
whether Alaska needs to assure people that Alaska seafood comes
from pristine waters and the issue of wastewater and air
discharges. The second question is her opinion on the need for a
new laboratory and whether she has given any thought to using
the facilities paid for by the state (the ASI facility).
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD answered that DEC is proudly
sponsoring ongoing research on the tissue of Alaska seafood in
order to assure the world market that Alaska's seafood is safe
from some of the contaminants discovered in other commercial
seafood around the world. Her hope is to support the seafood
industry with the results of that study and that if the results
demonstrate anything to be concerned about, DEC would be able to
implement protective programs.
Regarding waste discharges from seafood processing plants and
air emissions from their diesel generators, COMMISSIONER-
DESIGNEE BALLARD said that both of those waste streams are
subject to permitting by DEC. She believes the biggest
permitting challenge in the seafood industry is the waste piles
that can accumulate at the end of the outfall. DEC is working
with EPA and the industry. She hopes to determine the best way
to regulate and manage those piles by the end of this summer to
ensure that the state's water quality standards can be met and
that the industry can continue to manage its waste in a
competitive manner.
SENATOR ELTON said that some of the air quality issues,
especially in the Aleutian Chain, have also been problematic for
the processing industry.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD said she is not as familiar with
the air quality issues related to the seafood industry in the
Aleutians, so she asked to provide Senator Elton with an answer
at a later date. She then addressed Senator Elton's question
about the lab and said that DEC provides an important service to
a number of industry segments at the Palmer lab. The lab lease
expires in 2006. The Legislature has taken a series of actions
over recent years and provided DEC with funds to do a thorough
analysis both of the requirements for a lab to test food,
seafood, and for paralytic shellfish poisoning, and of the
available alternatives for relocation. She said she believes DEC
has investigated all of the alternatives and found none adequate
to meet DEC's needs. DEC has completed both a site analysis and
facility design. DEC feels a certain amount of urgency,
particularly with the growing success of the geoduck industry
and the shipment of live product.
CHAIR OGAN asked the cost of the new lab.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD said the cost to construct the lab
would be $14 million.
CHAIR OGAN asked if the lab has less than 14 employees.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD believed that to be correct. She
also noted she appreciates Chair Ogan's concern for the Palmer
employees and the dilemma of locating a lab in an area that
provides for a rapid turnaround. She offered to provide any
member with information on the cost and noted the largest
expense is the ventilation system.
CHAIR OGAN and SENATOR ELTON asked Commissioner-Designee Ballard
to provide the specifications for the lab.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Commissioner-Designee Ballard if she has
looked into a joint venture with the University of Alaska for
the lab.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD said she cannot provide a complete
answer to that question but she clarified that the DEC lab will
not primarily be a research lab. It will be a lab that serves
the regulatory needs and requirements of DEC's ongoing program
to protect public health and the environment.
SENATOR LINCOLN noted that she has watched Commissioner-Designee
Ballard give workshops in management skills and said she is in
awe of her ability and looks forward to working with her. She
then referred to current research that has revealed persistent
organic pollutants in ... [end of tape].
TAPE 03-3, SIDE A
SENATOR LINCOLN expressed concern about the huge increase in
various cancers throughout the rural communities. In her small
village of Rampart, 62 people have died of cancer. The cause
could only be the water from the Yukon River that is used for
drinking water in the wintertime or from the streams used in the
summer. She asked how the commissioner proposes to find the
impacts of pollutants on Alaskan lives from the studies that
have already been conducted.
Another issue SENATOR LINCOLN raised is that while her village
is only 100 miles northwest of Fairbanks, the second-largest
city in Alaska, people still use honey buckets instead of indoor
toilets. Performance measures on the DEC website target
increased access to running water and sewer in rural households
by 4 percent a year, but in 1999 the increase was flat; in 2000
it was 2 percent; in 2001 it was 2 percent; and in 2002 a 3
percent increase occurred. She asked the commissioner to
comment.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD said in response to her first
question about food contamination, she hopes to secure
sufficient funds to continue the studies to understand the
"body-burden" in fish caught and consumed in or marketed from
Alaska.
SENATOR LINCOLN interrupted to say that the contaminants were
not only found in fish, but also in game and berries.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD replied:
Wherever we are aware of a source of air-borne
emission or discharge into the water, we are able,
with respect to that source, to understand what
constitutes - what the contaminants in it might be and
to apply the protective standards, which - it is our
responsibility to develop to that source and issue a
permit that has controlled conditions on it.
She explained that there are world and state circumstances,
which are not subject to permitting by DEC, and they can only be
where they have statutory authority to be. Her department
regularly seeks budgetary approval to fund the permitting
programs. Contaminants that move across borders require
cooperative international efforts and cooperation between state
departments.
The Village Safe Water Program has invested over $1 billion in
the last 25 years in designing and constructing systems that
range from single point delivery sanitation facilities to in-
home systems. The current unmet need in every community totals
about $650 million for at least a single point delivery system.
Through her capital budget request each year, the Commissioner
said she will propose incremental efforts to chip away at that
need. Her package has three major funding sources - the U.S.
EPA, other federal funding sources that are appropriated
directly for that program, and state funds. That combined
investment has run from $50 to $100 million a year and has not
resulted in consistent increments, but has totaled $1.2 billion
over the years.
CHAIR OGAN said he spoke with the owner of a lodge and guiding
business in Southeast Alaska who said his permitting fees have
increased from $2,000 to $12,000 in the last 10 years. The
cumulative effect of the cost of all the permits on a small
business is overwhelming. He asked if that business owner can
expect some relief or streamlining.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD responded yes and said her actions
would be guided by common sense. However, she thought the person
he was talking about had tideland permits and other permits that
require federal involvement. For the state, he would need
drinking water and waste water system permits and to deal with
air regulations depending on how many generators he has. DEC
would also send a food inspector out to his restaurant.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD said the department is doing many
things to make the process easier, such as making its web page
searchable and interactive and providing as many opportunities
as possible to do the permit work from an individual's own
office on the web. The department is being organized as
logically as possible so that it is user friendly and general
permits that have common characteristics like wastewater and
storm water will be issued [in one step]. Regulations,
particularly old ones, are being reviewed to make sure they
haven't been superseded by another protective program. She asked
legislators to send her their constituents' concerns so that she
will have specific concerns to work from.
SENATOR ELTON said he appreciated her willingness to serve and
to relocate to his community. He asked her to let him know if
there was anything the Juneau delegation could do. He also
appreciated that she recognized programs that worked on her
transition report; one of the programs being the cruise ship
initiative. He asked how DEC will meet the challenge of checking
on self reporting by the industry on air and water discharge
issues.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD responded that last summer, staff
had been added. They were maintaining pace with the necessary
inspections and she didn't anticipate an implementation problem.
CHAIR OGAN thanked her for coming to the meeting and brought the
confirmation hearing to a close saying the DEC would be back for
an overview later in the session.
SENATOR LINCOLN moved to forward the name of the Commissioner to
the full body for consideration. There were no objections and it
was so ordered.
CHAIR OGAN adjourned the meeting at 5:29 p.m.
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